I'm asking the above questions because I don't want to run too hot of a load, but wasn't sure if it was ok to drop down below 2.8 as far as 2.5. Where many shooters quickly tire of even standard-pressure .38 in the little five-shooters, the wadcutter invites cylinder after cylinder of practice. All newly manufactured .38 Special revolvers must be proof tested to the same higher proof . 10,870. Bullseye is a little smoky, a lot sooty, and has a distinct odor. Fifty yards of course is the preferred distance. DISTINGUISHED LOADS SUCK - Distinguished Revolver loads that don't suck? Recoil is the good kind that reminds the shooter handguns are serious tools but without eliciting a flinch. SWC, 160 gr. @ Grumpy- I tried LOTS of grips on S&W revolvers. Initially I shot them out of my Dads prized Smith & Wesson 686 and learned a great deal about double-action shooting and what a truly accurate handgun can do with a wadcutter. You can post now and register later. I use 3.2 gr Bullseye to push a 125 gr cast along at 750 - 775 fps in the 38 SPL from 5 and 6" barreled revolvers. Nitpicking is its own reward., I believe the correct spelling is loathe . Plated bullets are to be loaded as lead bullets. Most double end wad cutters are 148 grain, and DR bullets must be 158 grain. Anyone that uses a J frame S&W should seriously think about swapping grips, and finding which set works for them. Through the heyday of bullseye shooting over the various match courses of fire, there was probably a Mount Rushmore-sized mountain of powder loaded and combusted 2.7 grains at a time. For best accuracy in slow fire shooting, you may want to raise gun before every shot. Although the .357 cylinders are the same length so they can be timed to a 642. 5 are good choices. Last time we took it to the range, I was trying to cycle the old +P ammo to load standard Lehigh ammo, I fired one shot, put the gun down and cursed while shaking my hand. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. WST seems like such a good powder in .45 ACP that I thought I might try it. I use Bullseye powder but it's about the same burn rate. WAP, WMR, WSF, WSL, 760, 748, 231 and 540 are products of Winchester, Components Div. When I say that theres rarely a wrong way to do it, I really mean it. 594/600 at the real distances of 24 rnds at 50 yds, 24 rnds at 25 yes, and 12 rnds at 7.5 yds. Also compared a S&W 638 to the S&W 36. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds . I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. Allgoodhits Posts : 726 Join date : 2017-09-17 Location : Northern Virginia Like If you havent taken a look at what the .38 Special offers, youre selling yourself short. ES 27 SD 12 Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose MV 892 fps ME 230 ft./lbs. have been factored in, but Looks like starting with roughly 4.2 of W231. If you have the means, I highly recommend you trying one out. The 919 case is tapered and therefore wider at the base than the .38 special is. Magnum 44 S&W Special 45 Colt 45 Auto 45 G.A.P 9mm Luger 9x18mm Makarov 32 S&W Long (Cowboy Action) 32-20 Win. In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). The .44 spl. Best to start a little low, and work up slowly with a chrono, though. I recently picked up a 396 Nightguard and am a convert to the 44 Special! Everyone here who has tried plated bullets including myself, have had disappointing results in accuracy. 9mm 125 grain RN Lead Hard Cast Bullet. 41 Rem Mag 35,000 I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. Good job on you! There is a difference in the manufacturing process of swaged bullets. It is less of an issue on a progressive press, but still requires attention. Upload or insert images from URL. .38 Special Montana Gold 125 FMJ Power Pistol 6.1 COL 1.417 Tested with a S&W-686-3, 6", ambient temperature about 32 degrees, no wind, target posted at 25 feet (hey, I'm testing handloads for use, not my long range bear killing skills, defensive only). That blunt-ended bullet cut a clean hole all the way through whatever its modest velocity allowed it to penetrate. 7.8 gr Blue Dot 1,170 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr Pressure: 15,700 4.5 gr Bullseye 1,085 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 4.1 gr Pressure: 14,900 Congratulations on spelling loath right. I would say I completely disagree with you on ever even contemplating using a revolver for self defense unless you are a person that has never owned a gun and not likely ever to practice with it. And it isnt my first rodeo with a J-frame. You have entered an incorrect email address! Only need cast when driving up to 1200 fps or so. Im still new to reloading, having done 2500 38 spl with bullseye. He loves this gun and keeps it in reach 24/7. Softer alloys of lead are just easier on the machinery. Shoot cast and coated bullets and you can go much higher in load and velocity. Is it more bulky? 3.8 gr. Because we have no action to cycle, the novice reloader can afford to be off a bit if they have an entry-level scale or powder dispenser. The 125 Hornady XTP, a jacketed hollow point bullet that can easily handle 1500 fps velocities. Bullseye is the best powder I have found for 38 special. butt 686 shipped w/ Hogue monogrips, discarded immediately due to pronounced finger grooves. They have a large selection about the hard cast loads from 90 to 170 gains. It seems to burn completely in the .38 and is not as critical as the faster powders like Bullseye. That sounds. load is 4.4 grains for 38 special and 5.0 grains is a +P load. Agree Problem with the J frame S&W is the grips. Despite being well over one hundred years old, it still has perfect relevance for todays shooters, both novice and advanced. I will always love the 38 SPL (never cared much for 357 Mag), but that 3 seven shot Charter with both 32 S&W Long and 32 H&R Mag is truly the bees knees. Both have fed 100% in a variety of pistols and have shot very well. I'm new to reloading, starting off with a single stage Lee press reloading .38 special and .357 magnum with Lee's 4 die carbide set. I also find the LCR .357 enjoyable to shoot with all .38s and most .357s. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. I cannot begin to fathom shooting 20,000 rounds out of that revolver! 2.) Would .44 Special be somewhat similar to .38, in terms of ease of reloading, case life, etc.? But one classic target load is not far behind the .38 wadcutter in its own reputation with target shooters: a 200-grain semiwadcutter bottling up 4.6 grains of Bullseye. WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets, Re: WST for .38 special 125 gr plated bullets. Case life is excellent, especially for mild loads. Love my 642 for concealed carry, but have an SP101 (also a snubby) in .38 special (only) for use on the range. Re: 38 special loads by GrumpyOldMan 11/10/2013, 4:23 pm IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. Youre describing Remington Multiball ammunition (R357MB)- I used to carry that stuff decades ago. Jacketed bullets are legal for DR, as long as they are 158 grain round nose or semi-wadcutter. is a good place to start. When I teach other people the basics of reloading, I teach them on the .38 SPL. You have never indicated what barrel length or brand or frame size you may be using these in. .38 Special is a lot more comfortable in a service size revolver like my Model 10. A gun on you always works better than the gun left at home. 11/2/2022. I load my 38 target ammo to 3.5 grainsand my self defense 38 to 3.8 grains, when using 158 grain bullets (and Bullseye). Hi. As a young man, I came into a couple of cases of hand-me-down factory mid-range wadcutters. While I wish I could carry a 5 .45 WITNESS with several 10 round mags, as a senior citizen, the S&W J frame is my user friendly alternate. I did find a 145 grain Lead HP with a rounded ogive (like the last NyClad) on Gunbroker that opens really well if you get above 800 fps. https://www.bullseyeforum.net/t2221-distinguished-revolver-loads-that-don-t-suck. Id pay at least a dollar to see it. I'm going to start with 3.8 grains. That little 9 oz. Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. I routinely use only two powders: Trail Boss and Titegroup. And for 99% of the actual real world needs of a citizen for self defense it will work just fine. You can't rely on this because not all variables for YOUR cases and chamber and loading length, etc. accuracy. * I like the smell of Bullseye, dont mind wiping the handguns down after a range day, and the dark soot that accumulates on my support hand when shooting wheelguns in particular just reminds me to wash up. Its like a pellet gun with a little noise and smoke if using black powder. Load it in 38 Special dies. I carry 38 /357 every day have used them in real world shootings. Im not recommending that you carry the Bullseye load, but dont feel as if you are going to tactical purgatory for enjoying this load, either. The mild recoil of the mid-range load is a perfect mate to the .38s that most shooters own these daysthe airweight J-Frame or equivalent. IMR 3031 and IMR 4895 are products of IMR (formerly DuPont) Powder Company. Best and most realistic article about the .38 special ive found. Berry says load plated bullets to mid-range jacketed bullets of same profile and weight or equal to hard cast. If you, I took the vow not to buy any more AR-15s a couple of years ago. The 38 Special Ball round was designed a long time ago to comply with specifications laid down for ammo that was : 1) Compliant with the Hague Accords of 1907 in regard to "unnecessarily" injurious ammunition. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Normal, mild .38 loads work fine with lead bullets. (Same issue found with a 12 oz. Does anyone have experience with loading WST for 125 gr plates bullets or a place to start the research/testing? Unlike many other guns Ive owned and carried, this little snubby really cant be modified much beyond factory configuration. I've been using the same powders forever. A chameleon depending on your loads and the barrel length or action its fired from. The mention of a Lee Loader somewhere above took me back to the good-old days. But I found 2.4 and 2.7 interesting at 25 yards off the sandbags. A Forum dedicated to the sport of Bullseye shooting, Bullseye-L Forum::Ammunition Discussion, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 9:00 am, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 5:36 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:46 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:45 pm, byPacFltShooter Wed Nov 04, 2020 4:50 pm. Javascript is required. During my first half century on this planet, my caliber of choice for defense was 45 ACP- but for everything else it was always 38 SPL. Dont know where #1 Buckshot can be found, but the Speer shot cups and UNIQUE powder currently easy enough to find. is limited to either the various Charter Arms models, or as a training/target load in a .44 magnum size handguns. Classic loads are economical. The best part about this is that not only do you never really lose your fired cases, but you they are always in great condition. I once rented a Ruger LCR in .38 Special. 7, No. Due to different barrel lengths, type of bullet, seating depth, primer type and other factors, you may not get near the FPS charted. Lord only knows how many cartridge cases I hammered with a plastic mallet into that Lee, it had to be thousands. Thank you. Think that if a .44 spl. .38 Special (Alliant Data) Warning! But its also worth considering that its pushing the same size and weight projectile at the same velocity as the standard Army revolver load during the Civil War. Swaged bullets do not have the hardness of poured (cast) lead. I have not loaded plated bullets in quite some time, since they are not useful for my accuracy needs. i use a Lee mold 150 round nose with 4 grains of bullseye crimped into the crimp groove of the bullet. When you say "not working" can you be more specific? I load these bullets to the edge of the shoulder and use anywhere from 3-4 grains of TB. The Internet Pedant These loads are for my wife's revolver. Then duplicate with reloads for practice. If she had shot more, I would have probably bought another set of dies, to prevent the need for changing adjustments between the two. *WAP is not best choice for .38 special, too slow and inconsistent. Some medium fast powders would work with lighter weight bullets. It's given me good results in the 2, 3 and 4 inch barreled. 2.9 of Clays is soft enough and dead accurate at 50yds. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Pick up any current gun magazine and youll be inundated with images of sexy black rifles. The 357 magnum about 45,000 psi and the std 38 special about 17,000 psi. S&W M637-2 2" barrel With a charge of only 3.1 grains of Winchester 231 powder, velocities run around 750 to 800 fps with good accuracy and mild recoil. The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. You can fit 7.1gr of powder under the 125gn JHP bullet? I will start ouy at the minimum velocity then. You trade a little less speed for a little more mass but at snubnose velocities I really think the standard 158 grain slug gives the best penetration. The Charter Arms .44 models are potential CCWs, but are too light to properly handle the .44 spl. Therefore, the conventional wisdom is that they must be loaded to a lower velocity. If I get to see him shoot those loads, it would be worth the price of a new keyboard! As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. Disclaimer, I own or owned all the super calibers out there except the casull, theyre all fun and quite useful in some scenarios, but dont discount the old timer. My grandkids think Im pulling their leg, when I tell them about the freedoms that NIMBYs took away. 38 Special 17,000 Reading the "WARNING" on the site, it states to not exceed the loads published and to start 10% below the loads shown and work up from there. It seems to burn completely in the .38 and is not as critical as the faster powders like Bullseye. Very little recoil, and grouped acceptably out to 15 yards or so. Im also impressed by the apparent durability of your Airweight J-frame. IMHO .38 special is just fine for self defense, but just not enough to crack engine blocks. Different colors can be used to identify different loads and since bottom of each bullet is also powder coated, there is less lead dispersed in the air at the shooting range. 4.0 gr. Reloading for it came next and it has since become my favorite pistol cartridge. I checked out Alliant's website-no data for flat point with the powders I have, but data for Gold Dot HPs for Bullseye and Unique. Even slower powders may provide more consistent speeds and will be tested in the future (No. I've been reading about this. This represents a great start, and if thats all you do, youll still be far better off than the majority of the population. I carried a lightly customized 4 inch heavy barrel model 10 for years, with a black cerakote job. The cartridge offers a great deal of zest and has thousands of possible load combinations. Me too! Bullets are .357 for jacketed and .358 for lead in diameter. While I do have a GP100 in .357 magnum, I dont like shooting .38 special ammo out of it, because cleaning powder residue out of the longer chambers is a real bitch. If you can follow simple instructions, you can safely load this cartridge. 1.455 in. The only reason that my standard (everyday carry) self-defense handgun is not a .38 Special revolver is because I can conceal a semi-auto better (it isnt as fat as the cylinder on a revolver) and my semi-auto has 15 rounds of hard-hitting 180 grain bullets. Load manuals often advise against downloading .38 Special jacketed loads to prevent squibs, especially the 110 and 125 grain bullets. We look at three classics: one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. Never got around to trying the T grips. Thanks for the start load Power Pistol will run lower pressures for the same velocity than W-W 231. However recoil will be the limiting factor especially for the short line. Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. There really is a recently developed technology that prevents leading, while eliminating messy lubricants. These types of guns are not as strong as more modern solid frame revolvers. The stuff you learn shooting 20,000 reloads (on top of thousands of rounds of factory ammo) can be pretty interesting and I feel that Ive got a very good picture of what the .38 Special. There have been guns Ive bought for the caliber, but the .38 wasnt one of those. Wadcutters are tailor made for lightweight snubbie practice, allowing shooters to enjoy shooting the pocket guns. I found the plated wadcutters to have NO accuracy. What I learned after 50 years of shooting and reloading 38spl cases some where around 100 thousands rounds. "Berry's Superior Plated Bullets are the finest bonded copper-jacketed bullets available today.." ?. 44 Rem Mag 36,000. I like Bullseye in the 38 Special, and it was a consistent performer with the 125 grain bullets. Hmm. Thinking of using it in NRA Action pistol or PPC. In my time with the cartridge, I have come to appreciate the mid to low end of the power spectrum and thus have made extensive use of Trail Boss powder and bullets such as Hornadys .358 158gr SWC. As I researched loads in the meantime, I kept seeing the same several popping up again and again in sources from as recent as yesterday to long out of print books from when air travel was a newfangled wonder. I'm still hunting for a DR load for my S&W M19-5. Over 20,000 rounds, Ive found that theres rarely a wrong way to do .38 SPL. In my area, Bullseye is one of the first powders to disappear from shelves, lasting about a heartbeat longer than an econo bulk box of .22 Long Rifle ammunition. Does anyone have any luck with Jacked Bullets. Ethan Johns is a military professional with worldwide experience in specialized units. Great gun. That one Ill keep. I have one that has been loaded about sixty times and it is still in use today. Many people tend to poo-poo .38 Special (standard pressure) for self-defense as being somehow underpowered. The fast powders, W231, HP38, Bullseye would go over pressure very quickly with any slight changes, in seating depth or primer change. I soon traded off a Colt Frontier Scout .22 LR for an S&W Model 15 and happily chased all manner of small game and landfill targets with my stash of wadcutters. Discussion: Bullseye is a faster burning powder and some people feel better suited for the .38 special. I can get away with using it as cast w/ alox. Heck, 38s in a J frame arent fun- theres no way a 327 Mag isnt worse. This. 110gr JHP! Load cut these cards at five yards out of this Model 15. The gun has appeared on TTAG before and has remained unchanged as far as accessories. Bullet seating depth is very forgiving. To many shooters, .45 ACP means 230-grain hardball at 830 fps. The other .38 Special is a 4 Colt Diamondback. I reload a 3 CA Bulldog in .44 with 200 gr wadcutters, to recreate the Man Stopper loads of long ago. The load is a great learning tool in .45 for beginner and experienced alike. The design of this modern revolver makes the SW guns seem archaic. June 13, 2016 in 9mm/38 Caliber. ammunition in the same gun enables that shooter to hunt larger game and to fend off beasts that snarl. That's usually +P power level in .38 Special. DR loads (158gr Remington swaged LSWC over 3.6gr AA#2 in Winchester .38 Special cases) I shoot American eagle, remington factory,remington umc, and mag tech. .38 will take care of nearly any critter that needs dispatching feral cats, raccoon, armadillo, even wait for it. You can always back off to the .32 S&W Long or .32 H&R Mag if you choose to. Eventually somebody introduced me to tungsten carbide resizing dies, after which case life became near indefinite. The swaged bullets are soft enough that they expand even at mild velocities where a JHP or hard cast cant. Would you like to react to this message? I get okay accuracy with 4.4 of W-W 231 and 125s, depending on what bullet is used. The Bullseye powder pushed five into two inches flat for another 1911 that is typically a four-inch gun. A significant difference in speeds is usually noted. 3 gr of WST in a 38 spl case with 125 gr plated bullet is a very light load. Ive played with several that I like, but the classic in 9mm is 4.4 grains driving a 115-grain jacketed bullet. Good shootin! My experience has always been with bullseye powder. As example, 5.8 6.0 grains UNIQUE with a 125 grain HP in a snub nose .357 revolver. Shot placement is just as important if not more. Bought my small handed wife a 642. A longer case, with have a tighter crimp them a shorter one, what will lead to variations in pressure, and accuracy. Reloading Data for .38 Special - Load Data - 1895Gunner. WC, 158 gr. Dec 18, 2011. Therefore, your platform yields a lot of safety cushion with target loads. These have a good profile- longer at the top where the middle finger rides, and shorter where the pinkie rests. 4.2 gr. Posted March 19, 2015. I buy 158 SWCHP all the time.my main bullet. Winchesters 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. The 36s greater weight makes it much easier to shoot than the 638. For those who have issues using auto pistils, due ti arthritis or other medical issues with the hands an LCR or 642 is a great choice. Bullseye is one of the oldest smokeless pistol powders and still one of the most popular. I found some data for 148 and 158 gr bullets but no published data on the 125s. Pasted as rich text. Smith & Wesson Model 27 .357 Magnum (because no 6-inch Smith & Wesson .38 Special revolver was on hand). Most notably the lighter weight bullets. I don't have a chronograph, but have considered picking one up. Winchester only published load for WST in 38 special using lead bullets if you look at the data for the 158 data the start load goes from 3.3 Gr and a max load of 3.7 Gr. Just look for a lead remover tool with bronze screens. I had ammo for some friends as low as 600 fps. Load it using wadcutter specs, and seat the bullet flush, like a wadcutter. We've got some great loads for 158 coated and plated semi wadcutters, and we're trying something new. Ask your Dealer, or call Hodgdon), has a Cowboy Load section, (near the center fold), that lists data for about all SASS calibers. Times across steel plate racks and many of my standard drills with the 200-grain SWCs rival my best easy-shooting 9mm results. I never enjoyed touching off a 357 Mag in a K frame, and I cannot imagine the discomfort of firing it in anything smaller or lighter. As anyone learns quickly, first thing that needs to be done is to replace the small factory S&W grips (I use Hogue) so you can hold onto the gun. People who prepare usually tend to focus on the survival basics: security/self-defense, water, food, first aid, sanitation/hygiene, knowing when to get out and when to stay put. I carry my M642 extensively, but I only shoot it occasionally because it is a snappy little b!tch with standard loads. Wes, SASS Wire rules prohibit posting specific load data on the forum, but it can be passed along via private message or email. are you loading .38 special brass, or .357 magnum brass? Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? It has been many years since I used a Lee Loader and a wooden mallet to reload 8mm Mauser. And if youre doing that with a snub.let me know I wanna watch you shoot em. May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. Instead, Ive favored things like the K and L frame Smiths (5 screw pre-model 10 and 686 in my case) and Ruger revolvers for higher round count activities. 32 S&W Long 15,000 I, like Spartacus, find the SAAMI recommendations an interesting spec for comparative purposes. IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. For any loads over 900-1,000 FPS, I suggest using a jacketed bullet. Last I looked still available at Brownells. head I use 3.2gr. (For those who would. My best group was .9 inch out of a Model 15. head I use 3.2gr. When you could leave city limits and just about every dirt mound in sight, was a plinking range. Accurates No. I just bought some 158 gr SWC bullets that are pure lead. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. My Ruger LCR .357 Magnum is pleasant to shoot even with full pressure loads. Alliant Pistol/Revolver Load Data: Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. Its just two lubed balls on top of each other with the top ball roll crimped just past the hemisphere. 4.0 gr. I dont own anything in .38 special yet, but I have plans to buy a .357 magnum revolver in near future, so I already reloaded couple thousands of rounds in .38 and .357. My point being is I used the resources I have, looked elsewhere (The High Road, The Firing Line), and wanted to try here. Go figure. Really important to have a chrono if you're going to work up loads When I first bought my chrono, I was amazed at how HOT my loads were - unnecessarily. Anyone know where I can download a chart where all the powders burning rates (regardless of manufacturer) is listed.
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